How long is a parent responsible for the actions of their child? Obviously a parent is not responsible for the actions of their 30 year old offspring, but what about a 16 year old? Or a 10 year old? I am not sure, since I don't hold anyone responsible for the actions of another.
You can try to instill responsibility and self-governance in your kids, but that doesn't mean it will "take". Even a toddler has the ability to do things that the parents disapprove of. Sometimes without the knowledge of even the most vigilant parent. The tots don't yet have the ability to accept the consequences of their actions, but does that mean their parents automatically are responsible? Even if the parents did nothing wrong and did the absolute best they could? To punish a person for the actions of another is a collectivist idea; one that disturbs me on a deep level, even if the person is assumed to be the "owner" of the other person (which seems to be the assertion when parents are punished for the actions of their kids).
I think about this because my family gets very disturbed by my activism. I am way beyond the age where my parents would reasonably be held accountable for the things I say and write, yet they still feel that what I say, in these blogs and in letters-to-editors, sometimes reflects badly on them.
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That is some very interesting stuff on the family there, Kent. IMO, the family is VERY important when it comes to the belief in the State and politics. In fact, I think the State is around because of corrupt families. I mean, you have to be corrupt to turn extortion, war, murder, kidnapping, and theft is okay as long as a magical group of people do it.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, is most of your family statist? If so, have you asked them if they support you getting shot if you, say, refuse to pay for the invasion in Iraq?
They are not really very "statist", but think it is safer and better to go along quietly so as to not attract attention.
ReplyDeleteI actually think they are coming along towards the idea of liberty more all the time. But they still get scared and jumpy, and seem to wish I would be quiet.
FSK and I are just having a discussion via email that followed up from a post I emailed you about earlier.
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of agorists seem to think that paying extortion money for fear of death or kidnapping is tantamount to voluntarily giving it up. What do you think about this? And is your family any less pro-liberty if they still pay taxes out of fear but know it is extortion?
I try to not get in the habit of blaming the victim for the crime.
ReplyDeleteI don't blame people who pay "taxes" any more than I blame a person who hands over his wallet when faced with a free-lance mugger.
The state is a bigger mugger that can not be avoided by simply avoiding certain parts of town after dark, but is everywhere all the time. He also lacks the decency of the freelance mugger who will leave you alone after the crime rather than following you around to continue molesting you eternally.
I think each person needs to resist however they think is best. My way may not be your way.
It's not so much that your family is being held responsible for your words and actions, as it is that they are being judged for them, and embarrassed by them. I know I don't like it when that happens with my son, and I'm sure your parents don't like it either. They probably like it even less than I do, given that they are elderly.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest difference between you and Elf (besides the fact that you are over twice his age) is that you live with your parents, while Elf is self-supporting and no longer lives at home. If Elf moved back home, I would have the right to restrict his activities which affected me, and your parents have that same right. The source of this right is your parents' absolute right to be comfortable in their own home.
They are instead in the unenviable position where they are very uncomfortable with, and possibly even embarrassed by, your activism (which is something you knew before you moved in with them). They therefore have only two options to solve the problem. They can either place restrictions upon your actions in order to minimize their discomfort, or put you out on the street (which they likely feel they cannot do, since your girlfriend and baby are also living with them).
The sensible option, which does not place your parents in an uncomfortable position when they are doing you a huge favor, is for you to simply respect their feelings and stop doing things which make them uncomfortable, as long as you are living in their home.
Wow. OK, yes, I moved in with my parents. I didn't need to, as I wasn't about to become homeless or anything. I didn't like where I was living, but I was not in any dire need to move. They kept asking me to, and I finally decided to do it.
ReplyDeleteThey asked me to move in even knowing about my activism and knowing I would not stop after I moved. If they had made that a condition of me moving here, I would not have done it.
I am not mooching off of them, but am working for them, doing projects they have not been able to have done. I am working harder than I have done in years (which may not be saying much, I admit). I am paying my bills and am not asking them for money to do so. If I felt I were taking advantage of them, or if they suggested I was, I would move out immediately. If my presence is a burden to them, in any way, I don't want to be here.
My parents taught me to stand up for what I believe. They taught me to think for myself. Our methods and perceived solutions may differ, however. They would be denying everything they ever taught me if they expected me to "sit down and shut up".
I would expect,indeed, hope my son being around in my "old age" would not put me in an "unenviable" state. I think most rational people that made it to an advanced age in life realized that their child and their children's children are about the only people that they really truly want to have around them all the time. Whether my son turned out gay, or an activist, heck even if he turned out a Republican, that I would want his company in my "final" years more than his gayness or activism bothers me. In the end of all ends if you are asked who you would've wanted to spend a few last days with, I would think many parents would say their children. Paying bills, being embarrassed, or making your child "conform" would not even make it on the list. Suzanne
ReplyDeleteExcellent stuff. I'm glad you said something different there. Some of the agorists in this freedom conversation have tried the opposite approach, so this was refreshing.
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