On the home territory that "something" is often "drunk drivers" or "drug abusers". Or child molesters. Or "rich capitalists" and dishonest businesses. Or guns, illness, poverty... the list is endless.
Thinking "globally" that "something" is often "terrorists" or "foreign invaders" who are just waiting for any sign of weakness to come to your home and take over unless the US government keeps a standing military.
I really can't identify too well with either type of fear. It just didn't take root if anyone ever tried to implant it in my head. But, I can't blame people for what they are afraid of, either- it's not a rational decision which they made. I do feel sorry for them.
But, I can't let other people's fears rule my life.
If you are afraid of what would happen under liberty, then no one is forcing you to be free. However, I am under no obligation to pretend your fears are related to reality, either. Nor any obligation to allow you to box me in to make you feel better.
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Insanity: read this. Collectivism pure and simple. Anti-individualist mentality.
ReplyDeleteSam
I could talk about how I am not afraid of the wild animals on a game preserve. And how people have irrational fears about lions and bears from my nice safe home. It is easy to have confidence about what it must be like on the preserve when outside of the fence in safety.
ReplyDeleteWhat I mean by that is living in the reality of where I live and the current state of "statism" it is hard to really know what true libertarian society would really be like. And how I would really live and feel. And how others would truely behave. It is all theory. Something we have never experienced at a full lifestyle experience from start to finish.
Kinda makes me think of tenured highly paid professors griping about and condemning the country talking about how it needs "fixed" when they personally have it made.
You'd better check your side of the fence. The thing statists don't see is that they are inside the fence and the baboons, rhinos, and leopards are being allowed to run the game preserve. All libertarians want to do (for the most part) is delegitimize that silly system. You are asking the bad guys to protect you from other bad guys who are mostly imaginary. Society doesn't need to be "run" at all. It sorts things out just fine due to the interactions of millions of people acting in their own self-interest. Without the State, it is much more dangerous to be a bad guy. Look how many "laws" are imposed to keep you from defending yourself and your property, and demand instead that you call in the "professionals". That doesn't work very well, and never can.
DeleteNo one knows what a "true libertarian society" would look like. There are more ways to solve problems without using aggression and theft than anyone can imagine. And as technology evolves, even more new solutions crop up.
What is it you want more than anything else? Are you willing to stop meddling in the lives of others for the opportunity to have it (so they can also pursue their heart's desire)? If not, it seems you really don't want it very much.
"And how others would truely [sic] behave."
See, there's that irrational fear again. Are the people around you really so awful that without the threat of The State hanging over them they'd rape and pillage? If so, you need to find other people to hang around with. Almost every statist will admit that he and his friends and family are fairly trustworthy, but it's "those other people" who need to be governed. And "those other people" say the same about you. It's time to grow up.
And, do you not see that the worst of the worst gravitate to those "government" jobs where they can prey on people with nearly perfect impunity?
"It is all theory."
DeleteNo, it's not. It's how almost every person lives the vast majority of their life. All you have to do is admit it's wrong to keep making the exceptions to being civilized that you make. The State is the opposite of society- and is a grave threat to civilization. You should read "The Criminality of the State" by Albert J. Nock, here's a little excerpt and a link to the whole thing: link If you are then interested in a little more in-depth reading, Nock's "Our Enemy, The State" goes into more detail.
"Something we have never experienced at a full lifestyle experience from start to finish."
That's debatable. There will always be bad guys around. Call them "government" or rapists, or armed robbers, or whatever. If you can't be free while bad guys try to violate you, you'll never be free no matter what happens. I just accept that there are thugs trying to run my life against my will- and in violation of Natural Law- and I know it doesn't matter what you call those bad guys. I do wish others would stop pretending some thugs have some sort of perverted legitimacy, but that's not within my power to influence. So I will do what I want and try to avoid being molested by thugs. It's not perfect, but nothing is.
"Kinda makes me think of tenured highly paid professors griping about and condemning the country talking about how it needs 'fixed' when they personally have it made."
How so? A "country" can't be fixed, because it's not real. It's a mental glitch. A delusion.
You can fix your own life, though, and it doesn't depend on what anyone else does. I don't care what you do with your own life. As long as you don't steal from me, or attack me. Well, if I see you doing the same to anyone else we'll have a problem. But you can form your own happy little communist enclave as far as I'm concerned, as long as you leave me (and anyone else who doesn't consent) out of it. That's the problem- libertarians are perfectly happy to let you live as you want (while letting you know we recognize we have the fundamental human right to defend ourselves and our property, so it might be in your best interest to not attack us or steal), but statists can't give the same courtesy. That's where the problem lies.
Delete"Kinda makes me think of tenured highly paid professors griping......."
How so? A "country" can't be fixed, because it's not real. It's a mental glitch. A delusion.
Biting the hand that feeds them. Looking a gift horse in the mouth. Whatever cliche you can think of for those that enjoy the benefits of their environment, yet are never satisfied. And advocate to change it all because it is supposedly rotten and bad.
I guess I would rather expend my energies trying to realistically reform the systems we have in place. Especially since at the fundamental level (authoritarian leaders, and followers) it has been consistent throughout human history, and will never go away. I may dream of it another way, but that is too bad.
Just sitting around pontificating about how wrong everything is, and not doing any real thing to change it because the state is "evil" seems to be...irresponsible? Unhelpful? Is the best way I know to describe it.
"Biting the hand that feeds them."
DeleteOr, are those who keep supporting The State feeding the jaws that bite them? If you are given a horse with anthrax, it's not a benefit to you. It's more like the smallpox-infected blankets the US government gifted the Natives with in order to help "solve" the "Indian problem". No thanks. Any "benefit" that comes with this particular political environment is less beneficial than unfettered liberty would be. Every single one. Stockholm Syndrome is the only explanation for those who refuse to see it- except for those who know full-well what they are doing as they exploit the "system" to the detriment of society.
"...reform the systems we have in place"
I think you'll eventually see it's not possible. Any real reform, which could make a substantive difference, is not allowed to take place. Instead you are encouraged to vote and petition those who have no reason to change anything- they are laughing at you. It keeps you from doing something effective by giving you busy work that makes you feel good without being a threat to them. It gives you a false sense of accomplishment.
As has been said "If voting could change anything, it would be illegal". Voting is what got "us" where "we" are today. There is only one possible direction- over the long term- that voting can go. And it isn't toward more liberty.
However, I won't stand in your way. As long as you vote for more liberty (however you believe that is defined) I will consider you going my direction and I'll leave you alone. As long as you don't try to stop me from continuing on the path to even more liberty, once you have voted in all the liberty you want, we can part ways at that time without animosity.
"sitting around pontificating about how wrong everything is, and not doing any real thing to change it"
Well, as I have explained, working within (as most people seem to misunderstand it) the "system" is the opposite of doing something "real". The only thing that has ever changed anything is individual action. "They" need you; you don't "need" them. Withdraw consent and stop supporting the broken, irreparably corrupt system and you'll do more "real" in that instant than a lifetime of voting can ever accomplish. It's the only way you can truly take responsibility for your own liberty. If you dare.
"(authoritarian leaders, and followers) it has been consistent throughout human history, and will never go away."
DeleteSo I guess you are opposed to seeking a cure for cancer, too? After all, it has always "been consistent throughout human history" and may never go away. And people will never fly or be able to carry telephones in their pockets, either. Until they do. Funny thing about those things that have never been done. You seem to believe everyone "needs" to be an authoritarian leader, or a willing follower. How do you explain the growing numbers of us who don't?
"And how others would truely behave. It is all theory."
ReplyDeleteUh, no. First, you know exactly how you would behave, because you get to choose it. And so it is for others, unless you're so convinced, as Kent implied, that you are so different from everyone else, even though you're not. And then, as it happens, you live almost the entirety of your life in the absence of State interference anyway, as you go about your day-to-day activities and interact with others. Almost all of that is completely voluntary and consensual.
The rational basis for "voluntarism" or whatever you want to call it, is not so much that individuals ought to be that way, but rather that they ARE that way. Your fear, and everyone else's, has brought us to where we are. In a thread entitled, "The Reason Why There Will Be a Second American Civil War," your very point is addressed. Wake up, man...nothing is more deadly than Tyranny. And remember this---in nearly all cases except those requiring physical defense in the instant, "Fear is a liar."
http://zerogov.com/forum/index.php?topic=3204.msg19359#msg19359