You have the right to own and carry a weapon, which only means no one has the right to forbid you from doing so. If they did have this right, then your right wouldn't be a right, but a privilege.
You don't have the right to threaten or shoot innocent people with your weapon while claiming "gun rights". Completely separate issues.
You have the right to own and control property-- real estate-- which means no one has a right to forbid it. If they had the right to forbid it, this would mean you only have the privilege to own and control property rather than the right.
You have no right to violate people's rights just because they are on your real estate by claiming "property rights". Completely separate issues.
Your rights never include violating the equal and identical rights of others. I don't have the right to violate your rights on my property, so you don't have that right, either. That right can't exist, by the nature of rights. You have the responsibility to not violate other people's rights while exercising your rights.
So, you don't have the right to shoot innocent people due to your right to own and carry weapons just because you wanted to shoot, and you don't have the right to make up rules which would violate other people's natural human rights as a condition of them being on your property.
Some speak of rights "conflicting", but they don't. My property rights end where yours begin, and yours begin-- at the minimum-- at "you". My rights don't overlap yours. There is no conflict.
It's the difference between "You're on my property" and "You are my property".
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Reminder: I could really use some help.
"You have no right to violate people's rights just because they are on your real estate by claiming 'property rights.'"
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely true.
Requiring agreement to X as a condition of using one's property, and enforcing that condition, does not and cannot violate anyone's rights.
Using someone's property in violation of such a requirement does by definition violate the property owner's rights.
I'm glad you made the distinction between a right and a privilege. Too often I hear everyday people use the word right when the word privilege is the more appropriate term for what they're saying. Drives me crazy. Also, interesting topic concerning the personal rights / property rights thing. Makes me curious how property (real estate) is defined and what constitutes a just acquisition of said property and what constitutes abandonment or other potential gray areas concerning who owns a given piece of property...
ReplyDeleteI'll admit that everyone who disagrees is probably right and I am probably wrong. All the objections sure look and feel like strawmen to me, but maybe they aren't.
ReplyDeleteTwo more posts and this will be wrapped up. But please hear me out.
If I'm wrong you'll at least see where I'm coming from. My reasons may be faulty but you'll be able to see what they are. Maybe you can at least see why I believe what I believe, and even see that it isn't what you may believe it is (it has nothing to do with guns, but that seems to be the hot button).
This topic has completely drained me. The only reason I keep pursuing it is that I think it is critically important. But it has left me feeling awful about myself; anytime people I respect disagree with me it has that effect. If I could believe otherwise, I would. But to do so I have to abandon my belief in rights altogether-- including any belief in property rights. I've discussed the "rights are imaginary mental constructs" argument and where that leads plenty of times in the past. (It leads to a place where if rights are imaginary, then no one has a right to rule anyone else, so we are back at the beginning.)
Anyway... onward.
"You don't have the right to violate others"
ReplyDeleteYou can create it though, IF you know the recipe and can find all the ingredients. It's actually not complicated.
Get people who agree about things, then hire someone to say magic words at a ceremony/temple and describe on paper what you want reality to be. Then change violent acts to other things by describing them as something else.
For example: Describe reality as everyone owing you money for goods and services not rendered or agreed upon. Rename it "Charity" and assign rehabilitation to those uncharitable demons who fail to comply with the new reality. Rehabilitation can include things like involuntary stays at rehabilitation centers or vaginal inspection services, face durability testing, charitable real estate gifting, auto donations, etc., etc. ...whatever you want it to be.