tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33774205.post6390385981125429263..comments2024-03-28T15:25:11.464-05:00Comments on Kent's "Hooligan Libertarian" Blog: Training away reflexes?Kent McManigalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05005964583189815410noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33774205.post-63822544443459860232023-01-15T11:38:09.425-06:002023-01-15T11:38:09.425-06:00I'll go into this a little more in Monday'...I'll go into this a little more in Monday's post. It's an interesting topic-- one I've discussed several times over the years. I realize I have less consideration for thieves' wellbeing than you might. The thief might prefer you arbitrate on his behalf; the defender would prefer I arbitrate on his.Kent McManigalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05005964583189815410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33774205.post-23152531671409475702023-01-15T10:28:27.469-06:002023-01-15T10:28:27.469-06:00"Once the first shot has been fired in a life..."Once the first shot has been fired in a life-death situation, is the shooter unable to control subsequent shots?"<br />Not necessarily, but I can see how it could happen.<br /><br />"if so, I suggest the onus is on him"<br />I disagree, since he's not the one who chose to initiate the encounter.<br /><br />"I wonder whether he's an off-duty cop."<br />I've wondered the same-- or a former cop.<br /><br />"disable and be ready to kill"<br />I disagree. You should never shoot to disable. You shoot to stop the attacker. It's hard enough to hit center-of-mass in a defense situation, it's nearly impossible to aim for the knee. A responsible defender aims his first shot center-of-mass. This is sometimes enough to stop the attack, but if not, you keep shooting until the threat is definitely over. You don't even consider whether or not the bad guy survives.<br /><br />And, yes, in the first post (or a follow up comment) I said the defender might owe some restitution to the bad guy's dependents/estate, but it would be deducted from the estate of the bad guy, who owes restitution to the defender and everyone present. Like I mentioned, if I were the arbitor I would suggest the defender pay the estate of the bad guy a couple of ounces of silver, to be deducted from the pound or two of gold the estate of the bad guy owes for him initiating the event.<br /><br />Kent McManigalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05005964583189815410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33774205.post-89391672898842415782023-01-15T06:09:25.984-06:002023-01-15T06:09:25.984-06:00No disagreement. And BTW I didn't mean to be A...No disagreement. And BTW I didn't mean to be Anonymous yesterday; I hit the wrong button in error. It may have been TUB...<br /><br />With that theory, though, you've opened a very interesting subject. Once the first shot has been fired in a life-death situation, is the shooter unable to control subsequent shots? - if so, I suggest the onus is on him, whether or not to take that first shot. Or even to carry a gun. It's basic gun control.<br /><br />In the Houston case, Defender must have planned what he would do once Robber no longer had him in peripheral vision. Those were his critical, pre-TUB moments, lasting a minute or so. When the time came he drew, stood and fired with astonishing speed, clearly well-practised. I wonder whether he's an off-duty cop.<br /><br />Evidently, he decided to kill Robber. I don't think he should have; disable and be ready to kill, but no more. That's not of course to say anyone should punish him - but in a free society there could be a claim for compensation from him brought by Robber's dependents. If any.Jim Davieshttp://takelifeback.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33774205.post-83689473981798379422023-01-14T21:39:49.540-06:002023-01-14T21:39:49.540-06:00I have always had a problem when people who weren&...I have always had a problem when people who weren't there decide what constitutes "no more than enough" in such situations. I understand the desire to judge it, but I don't agree that anyone has the right to do so.<br />Yes, I agree that would always be best, but it's subjective. It's why I don't second-guess defenders. And, yes, the final head shot looks to me to be too much... but I wasn't there.<br /><br />I also agree that what you propose as the correct way to handle such a situation would be the best possible way to handle it. Of course, scarpering/scampering is going to be looked upon as a "crime" by government regardless of anything else the defender did or didn't do.<br /><br />But, again, the robber initiated the course of events. The final responsibility is still his, even when it results in his death. Basically, it's a suicide... like jumping out of a plane with a tissue paper parachute. He set events into motion that he should have been able to predict, and that aren't going to go well for him. If you don't want to risk someone taking defense "too far", don't put them into the situation and force that decision on them. They might not be able to handle it in a way that you or others feel is best.Kent McManigalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05005964583189815410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33774205.post-19022806280996779632023-01-14T12:16:26.837-06:002023-01-14T12:16:26.837-06:00I see a conflict here between this Theory of the U...I see a conflict here between this Theory of the Uncoupled Brain (TUB) and the Self Ownership Axiom (SOA.) You may be right that there comes a point when "reflexes take over" but that may violate the SOA.<br /><br />Up to the instant when TUB kicks in, you have control. The Taco Robber is still menacing you and other diners with an apparently real gun, so you (being armed) certainly have the right to protect your life by disabling him; using enough force to end the danger.<br /><br />But no more than enough; otherwise, you become the aggressor.<br /><br />So you have to plan the action and prevent TUB taking over. Shoot him center mass, okay, he falls down. Then check his hand. Is it trying to regain control of his gun? - then shoot the hand, from a can't-miss three feet away. Then see that he's trussed up with duct tape from the owner's office, return the stolen property, call for a medic and scarper (an English word meaning to leave in a hurry.) Everyone lives.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com